Talking About Race: Could You Watch 12 Years a Slave with a White Man?

I got into a discussion on Abagond’s blog about why I did not feel comfortable watching the movie 12 Years a Slave with a white person and it caused quite and uproar with one of the posters in particular. For white men and Black women interracial couples, my question is how do you feel when you see movies like 12 Years a Slave? Let’s be honest, it’s not the best portrayal of Black women and white men interracial relationships on screen. It doesn’t put them in the best light

From my perspective, I wouldn’t feel comfortable watching the movie 12 Years a Slave with a white person, especially a white man because of the fact that it’s a constant reminder to me that things are not equal. It makes me recall  the fact that so much of our identity as Black people in the western world was stolen from us and it makes me think about the fact that 4 generations ago, I would have been a slave, in a similar situation as Patsey.

What really makes the movie personal for me is the fact that for the majority of my life, I have struggled with my identity as a Black person. I grew up in a predominately white neighborhood and attended a mostly white school. Everywhere that I went, I was indoctrinated with the idea that white people were the norm and the default. I see them in movies, commercials, magazines, I’d see them as teacher’s, presidents, professors and Black people were constantly portrayed as the inferior group. We’re portrayed as the criminals, the lazy ones, the burden on society. I used to have negative perception of myself and my race because I was indoctrinated with this idea. I had no idea that a large part of this negative perception was rooted in the fact that our identity was stolen from us and we still carry that negative legacy with us generations later.

I wondered why the Black schools in the inner city were some of the worst schools in the city and I wondered why I was always poked and prodded by my white peers like I was a mascot or a doll, instead of a human being. I was almost treated like a pet, right down to a white male petting my hair without permission…as if I were a dog…and I knew that I didn’t want to share this moment in the theater with a white person because (in my experience) white people aren’t able to empathize with what it’s like to be Black in this world. They don’t understand how difficult and complex it can be…

I’ve heard too many insensitive comments from white people when it comes to race. Including a white person telling me that  being discriminated against for being fat was the same as being discriminated against for being Black…and the fact that I would even have to explain the difference between the two was offensive to me, I don’t even want to have to engage that type of stuff and that is why I just didn’t want to see the movie with a white person. Maybe this makes me a bad person, but I just didn’t even want to go there…

Talking About Race: Could You Watch 12 Years a Slave with a White Man?

30 thoughts on “Talking About Race: Could You Watch 12 Years a Slave with a White Man?

  1. TTNYCRN says:

    Hey Peanut, just my two cents, hope you value my feedback

    You said that you grew in a mostly white area and struggled with your identity as a black person. Well Peanut, I grew up in the largely Afro-American/Afro-Caribbean districts in the New York City borough of Brooklyn(e.g. Bedford-Stuyvestant, East Flatbush) and I stuggled with my identity as a black man as even in a black environment, I get accused of “acting white” by talking proper and not sagging my pants. Sometimes when I ride the NYC subway on its elevated lines(this means that the subway train runs outside of the tunnel), I could see the skyline of Manhattan with the Empire State Building and the World Trade Centre in the distance yet my immediate area is nothing but poverty, gangsta living and such. And of course, gentrification is always a nice way of kicking black folks out! So despite our different environments, I understand your point Peanut. Being a Negro anywhere is not easy living.

    In regards to the movie, I have not seen it(hopefully I will get a chance too). Right now, I am watching the series that Dr. Louis Henry Gates has on PBS with the African-American experience from slavery to modern day living. It is actually a pretty good description of what has gone down since the first black man and woman arrived in the Americas. With your statement about watching the movie with a white person/being involved with a white man, I will say this Peanut. I wish you well with your love life and if you feel to be with a white man, you have your free will and a right to love who feel to love regardless of color. I dont believe that anyone, black or white, should tell you who to roll with. However, I find it VERY bizarre when black people in interracial relationships with whites all of a sudden feel this need to re-discover their African heritage(e.g. watching Roots) and want to help the black community.Heck, if I was with a white woman, I would forever keep my mouth shut. I know I sound like a polarizer but dont give me a snake and call it a bird.You cannot align yourself with a system of evil and then pretend to be a saint. You made a conscious decision to assimilate into White America and try to profit via a system of racial inequity. Pretending to care about racial inequity is only going to add stress on yourself, your relationship with your white partner and make a complete mockery of the problems that the “angry” Negroes face. So in my opinion Peanut, dont watch these types of “black” movies, be “colorblind” and live your merry life if you are in a IR union. Let the “militant” black people who actually care about improving their quality of life handle their situation in the hood.

    You could disagree with me Peanut but I have to speak a brazen and pepper language to get my point across. Main crux of my statement to you Peanut. If you as black woman are in a IR union, dont watch these types of movies. It is a stress that is not needed!


  2. Imhotep says:

    “Being discriminated against for being fat is the same as being discriminated against for being black.”

    A fat white person still has white privilege. None of us should listen to what they say.


    1. TTNYCRN says:

      “None of us should listen to what they say.”

      Right now, I am reading a book about Native Americans and their battle with the U.S. government over their land. Some Native Americans realized that white people have a sense of self-worth that basically affirms-Im white, so Im better than you. And of course, they tell stories that benefit them, making them look all mighty and powerful!

      As I mature and understand more about white supremacy, I really have to agree 100% with your statement Imhotep!


  3. I am white and haven’t heard or seen much about the movie 12 Years a Slave, so I can only assume what the content might contain. Still, I wanted to say that even though we can’t identify in the same way a black person might, a lot of white people are watching movies like that in horror and anger at the injustices that were done back then. It’s not just black people that benefit from watching and in fact, it might be a good idea to bring a white person with you, because you are helping open their eyes to something they may very well not understand much about.

    I went to see Django with a black man. Awkward interracial date? Yes, perhaps, but it gives something to talk about and an opening for discussion. The reason movies like that are made is so that ALL people can understand better what has happened in our country. You WANT white people to watch this stuff so they DO get a grip on their understanding of white privilege.

    My younger brothers and sisters are biracial and sometimes my brother loves to heckle me because I am white. It’s done good naturedly, for the most part, but a movie like Mississippi Burning comes on while we are flipping through the channels and he’s like “Oh look, it’s Lovergirl’s favorite movie!!”.😛 Of course, being siblings he just gets a pillow thrown at his head or a sarcastic “oh yes, I just LOVE watching this!! Go get those black people!!” Yes, we are totally inappropriate but sometimes humor is the only way to lighten the mood over something so awful and serious.

    MOST people, black or white, are going to watch something like that and feel compassion for people who were forced into slavery. If you don’t you aren’t human and to assume that white people are identifying with the whites in those movies is most often going to be wrong. It’s normal and acceptable for you to feel anger. Just realize that many of “us” white folks are feeling it too when we see the atrocities that have been done in our name.


    1. @loveroflife

      I agree with you completely but isn’t it true that many Whites don’t feel comfortable watching movies such as Django Unchained or 12 Years a Slave?

      Plus most Whites I know identify with White people, believe it or not. I am not saying to be offensive. But it is true in my casr and situations I have been in. Many Whites would disregard the feelings of Blacks and other minorities but make sure that people consider their feelings and ego.

      I am not trying to be offensive or anything.


      1. I am sure a lot of times white people don’t feel comfortable watching a movie like that with a black person. The reason is most likely because they feel bad for the things that happened or are afraid that your anger at injustices will be transferred onto them. I wouldn’t recommend just taking a random white person there but if it is someone you are close to, a close friend or a person you are dating then yeah, you should be able to have open dialogue afterwards. If they are just an acquaintance it could be really awkward. I think a lot of white people feel guilt about things that happened, even though they feel like it is something they had no control over. Then they are at a loss about what to say without coming across as offensive.

        I have a hard time believing that very many people could identify with the white folks that are portrayed in these movies. I’m sure there are some extremely racist folks who might. I think, more likely though, are the people who feel bad and feel guilty, but want some way to remove that guilt of off themselves. So they claim the movies are exaggerated and that those things didn’t really happen the way they were portrayed.

        With anything put out by Hollywood there will be those who have doubts. Personally after watching something like Django, I am googling to see if the things I had never heard of are really true, trying to find out as much information as possible. It is disturbing to see human nature at it’s worse, and the point of these movies is to point that out. It’s the same reaction you might get to watching a movie like Schindler’s List, even if you are not Jewish. You are most likely going to identify with the Jews that were persecuted and not the Nazi’s. Hopefully it would make you curious enough to find out more and do more research on your own, opening your mind.


  4. I can relate because I also grew up in a mostly White area as well and White students would ask me stupid questions regarding my race and unknowingly used stereotypes.

    Why would you see a movie like that with a White person? I have been around them enough to know that they aren’t confortable to sit down with us and watch a movie like that with us.


    1. TTNYCRN says:

      The sad part about it Adeen is that these whites, at least growing up in NYC, who asked me about “hood life” and playing basketball actually have black classmates, black associates, probably dated a black boy or black girl and could even have black children. And then they have the nerve to tell you that their racism is due to mere ignorance! PLEASE!

      Dont sell me a snake and tell me it is a bird!


      1. Imhotep says:


        A why-te man will never have anything good to say to a black man. They ask us about “hood life” because they want us to go away. They know they are inferior aboriginals. They put us in their world so we love them over ourselves. We can do no wrong in all of this. It’s not our fault that God made us for our sisters. Black man and woman never asked to be born and give birth to so many children who would go on to be Europeans, Asians, Mexicans, Indians, and etc. We are innocent in all of this. Our people did nice things for why-tes before slavery. They could not stand to see the Black family together. They still can’t. As far as I am concerned, we did nothing to anyone.


  5. oh wow so someone compared being fat to being black rofl smh. yeah they are the same alright, a fat person is made to buy two seats on an airplane, generations ago a black person wouldn’t have even been allowed on the dam plane, but some how they are the same thing oh ok smh.


  6. I don’t care about going to the movie theater any way to see any movie the stuff is overpriced so I have to feel like a drug smuggler sneaking in candy and snacks rofl. Then the ppl laughing for no reason or late ppl walking in oh no, i’d rather watch a movie at home and not miss anything and pause it to take a bathroom break.


    1. that is interesting its funny how most of the drivers said they would allow the blacks and indians on for free but a smaller percent were actually let on free. I thought they would allow women to ride for free more than the males but nope.


  7. FX says:

    Hi Peanut,

    I’m writing to support you in not wanting to watch that movie with a white person. Even though my partner is white – and we’re actually looking forward to seeing the film together – I respect the way you feel about it. I told my partner that everything that was wrong with Django is what’s right with this film and I haven’t seen either of them (and I refuse to see Django) so….

    And about the comment about being fat vs. Black. Ugh, I wish people who are benefitting from the system would just figure out how privelege and oppression works already.

    @TTNYCRNI have to say that I don’t understand why you think that just because a Black person is in an intercultural pairing that they should not bother with working towards fignthing racial inequity and systematic injustice. I swear, first it’s people assuming that they think ‘better’ because the’re with a white person, and now people are assuming their heart is not in this fight just as much as anyone elses based solely on the person they love. Here’s a thought, If someone takes up arms to join you in battle how about asking them about their politics instead of who they go home to.


    1. TTNYCRN says:


      First FX, thank you for reading my comment to give a rebuttal and I like your thoughts. Just so that we are clear, I hope that you understand these points. First, I am not a black man that has issues with black women being with white men(in fact, my mother is a mulatto who has a Black Trinidadian mother and Portuguese father that came to Trinidad&Tobago).When I was younger, I had minor romantic pairings with white females. I wish you well with your interracial relationship as I really do believe that everyone has their free will to love who they feel to love regardless of color and no person, black as well as white, should have any issue with your conscious decision on who to be with. I live and let live. However FX, my argument is quite sound.

      This is my personal observation FX(this is not scientific fact or peer-reviewed journal stuff,etc.). You said- “I swear, first it’s people assuming that they think ‘better’ because the’re with a white person, and now people are assuming their heart is not in this fight just as much as anyone elses based solely on the person they love.

      9 times out of 10, when a black person is with a white person, they do think they are “better”, so I know that their heart is not in the fight! As a black man, if I ever date another white female, my days of fighting would indeed be over! In fact, I would probably try to be the biggest Uncle Tom ever.

      You see FX here is the raw truth. When someone has to fight an issue that “really” affects their quality of life, I know that they are “really” trying to figure out a solution to their plight. I mentioned about growing up in New York City and seeing the Manhattan skyline in the distance yet seeing the poverty,despair and blight of the predominately Black neighborhoods of Central Brooklyn(e.g. Bed-Stuy,Brownsville,etc.). As a black person who lives in New York, racial inequity, especially in terms of economics and quality of life issues, affects my life and the lives of those I care about.Thats why I “really” care. So let me get this straight. A black woman has a white husband, living her life on Madison Avenue in Manhattan being surrounded by those beautiful tall skyscrapers and condos and has an opportunity to eat at the most expensive restaurant in New York, she is “really” going to be concerned about black boys in a school to prison pipeline in the inner city ghetto of Harlem, or some black girl being involved with the NYPD?Come on FX! Her individual gain by having a white partner is more of a benefit to her than caring about some stupid Negroes who are on welfare and cant get it together. Thats why I said, the “militant Louis Farrakhan” black people who “really” know how race affects their lives should deal with the issue. Having “Im better than you” Negroes with their false sense of being sincere and making a mockery of the problem is not needed. Let them live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan with their white partner and do their thing and let the black people in the hood do what they gotta do. In other words, let these mini-Black Panthers handle things that “really” is of concern to them.

      Besides FX, if a black person is in an interracial relationship and you dont see “color”, why should you honestly care about how “color” affects the lives of African Americans, and every other non-white group on this Earth? Why put your white partner through some pointless “black” talk?

      Finally you said-“If someone takes up arms to join you in battle how about asking them about their politics instead of who they go home to.”
      Sadly FX, 9 times out of 10, who they go home with usually influences their politics. And honestly, I have 1,000% more respect for someone who is 1,000% anti-me than someone who “pretends” to care but really does not. If you take up arms, stab me in my face, not my back!
      Anyway FX, once again, I wish you well in your love life and I really do respect your point of view. However, it blows my mind when Negroes who are points try to profit off the system of racial inequity and are living a good life with their “colorblind” love then decide they have some strong desire to help the black community.Sure!


      1. Sphinx says:

        I completely agree with you. There is no possible way a black person can be with a white person and be in the struggle with us. How do ou fight oppression when you go home and lay with the oppressor at night. Im good!


  8. TTNYCRN says:

    I forgot to put this in my original reply, so forgive me for adding to already long answer FX. Here is something that you and every other black person in an IR relationship(especially black female/white male relationships) should think about. In truth, everybody wins as their respective issues are solved. You dont have to agree FX and obviously no other black person in an interracial relationship has to agree but the logic is quite strong.

    Black female with white partner- You get your social status and your income level raised(earning a profit) in addition to finding love(a 3 for 1). As a black man, I got no issue with you and I believe that no one,black or white,male or female, should have an issue with you. And you could be “colorblind” as much as you like, you dont have the burden to bear that the “low-class Negroes” have to deal with and you could enjoy living on Madison Avenue in Manhattan.

    Black person who is passionate and truly cares about how race affects people and the lives that they live- Similar to Elijah Muhammad when he was in his peak in the late 1950’s through the 1960’s and obviously after his death in 1975, when Farrakhan took over, the focus is on making people of African ancestry know that they are capable human beings that have the power to fix their communities. In other words, it is about turning Bed-Stuy, South Side Chicago and other black neighborhoods from places of despair,hopelessness and a culture of death to ones of prosperity, community togetherness and a culture of life for themselves and future generations(e.g. children, young people). Since I am in the health field, I like studying about how hypertension, diabetes, prostate cancer(for black men), breast cancer(for black women) and other diseases affect African-Americans and what are ways of preventive care(e.g. stopping obesity,smoking,etc.),especially in inner city communities where most blacks live.

    White partner-Does not have to listen to pointless black talk, especially for the black person involved who really is not concerned anyway about the issues that I listed above

    As I said, you dont have to agree with my logic but I speak not as a pro-black radical but as black man is who pro-realistic after a problem that affects my life(Im a realist) and as a student of sociology who is observant of things on this Earth. So FX, if you or any other black woman in an IR relationship could find a flaw with my thinking,please tell me. As I see it, you get your interracial love life without inference(as I said before, black men should just let black women do their thing) and as black man, I dont have to with black women who pretend to care but actually like making profits off of white supremacy. Trust me FX, fighting against racial inequity is not for the faint of heart, especially if your heart is 0% involved in the fighting.


  9. “and now people are assuming their heart is not in this fight just as much as anyone elses based solely on the person they love”

    hmm, I look at it this way, people that have to deal with certain things everyday are more hungry and have less to lose and everything to gain, will fight the hardest. It’s not just some people that date interracially but people in certain classes, people in working class will be more hungry and willing to fight harder because issues of poverty and race may affect them more than somebody from upper class. I get what ttnycrn is trying to say. No disrespect to u or anybody but even people from different backgrounds look down on each other or may not be fighting as hard or for the same things. It was a lot of working class blacks that did a lot and changed things, but that is not meant as disrespect to the middle or upper class blacks that did something as well just when u are on the frontlines u have to give more than the ones behind. Another example if someone plays music or writes for a living and has to succeed at their talent or go broke they will put more into it than someone that writes or plays music for a hobby. That does not mean the person that does that for a hobby will not be as great just means they may not put in as much work and blood, sweat, and tears as the person that has to do it and has no choice but to do it right with little to no room for mistakes. People in interracial can still fight but they may not fight as hard as the people that don’t have a mate born into privilege. And people are fighting for different things, some are fighting for equality by joining with everyone, others are fighting for equality by means of economic empowerment and being away from others. Now people in interracial more than likely won’t advocate for blacks being separate from everybody and having our own things as that is a contradiction.


  10. TTNYCRN says:

    @Sphinx & mstoogood4yall

    Hey mstoogood4yall, glad to see your postings once again!

    Anyway, Im glad that you guys see my point. As I have always said, everyone has a right to their individual love life and thats their business. However, once they step out of their individual matters to discuss a collective problem(e.g. white supremacy), then I got to get involve because this problem affects my life.

    mstoogood4yall said-“People in interracial can still fight but they may not fight as hard as the people that don’t have a mate born into privilege. And people are fighting for different things, some are fighting for equality by joining with everyone, others are fighting for equality by means of economic empowerment and being away from others.”
    I agree with her comment 100%. The black people that have white partners are usually aiming for some”We Are The World, human race” kumbaya sort of concept. While there is nothing wrong with that theory in of itself, it is not a REALISTIC way of thinking. The cold facts is that this Earth is dominated by white supremacy and as long as this system gives white people a privilege(or to use a better term, normalcy where white people are viewed as normal and everyone else is not norm), “we are the human race” is not an effective solution. Morality without reality is utter stupidity. This portion of mstoogood4yall’s statement is the crux of my thinking-“others are fighting for equality by means of economic empowerment and being away from others.”
    Here are the cold sociological facts. Integration DOES NOT HELP the vast majority of African-Americans. If it did, black people would not be in the same situation that they were in back in 1963 when Dr. King gave his speech. My version of black nationalism is based on realism. I dont believe in conspiracy theories and I dont support any extremist measures(e.g. wanton violence). Outside of those possible flaws of black nationalism, it is true that black nationalism is indeed the more effective way of black people realizing their worth and dignity as human beings(which would earn them the true respect of white people instead of kissing butt via integration) and creating a culture of life in black areas considering that African-Americans are a highly segregated minority in both rural and urban(inner city) areas. The Nation of Islam, like any organization, has things that I dont agree with and I do feel that Farrakhan is sometimes weird however Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan have an organization that could take black men & women off of welfare, drugs, alcohol, etc. better than any “integrationist” can. Thats just facts! And if a black person has a white partner,even if talk tough, are nothing but integrationist in my eyes. Lets be honest- Sleeping in bed with a white woman/man and bringing a new life into this world with a white person is indeed integration to the 100% degree.
    Sphinx said-“How do ou fight oppression when you go home and lay with the oppressor at night.”
    I agree with this comment 100% also. Lets use a non-human example. A group of angry birds(no pun intended,lol!) are fighting against a system of cats that wants to destroy their lives. So now a bird comes with a cat and says-Hey, I will get you to freedom.” Should those angry birds trust that bird with the cat? Well, in my opinion, those angry birds might be in for a rude awakening. Birds trusting a bird with a cat to defend them against cats! As the late legendary author George Orwell once said- “Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”
    Right now, as I told the commenter Imhotep, I am reading a book called Bury My Heart @ Wounded Knee(deals with Native Americans battling white settlers and the U.S. government for their land). One of the Native Americans implies that white people think that he is foolish(in regards to the whites respecting the lands of the Indians). He comes to the realization that white people probably think he is dumb because he trusts white people.
    With that thought mentioned above, as a black man, if I trust a black woman with a white boyfriend/husband(since Peanut and the commenter FX are female, I make it gender specific but the same applies if a black female trusts me if I had a white partner) to fight for “racial equity”, I probably should look forward to a rude awakening also. Honestly, I have more trust in a person like Frank Rizzo(Rizzo was the Italian-American mayor of Philadelphia during the 1970s who used the Philadelphia Police to crush the Black Panther Party) than a black female with a white partner. As I said, I respect those who stab me in my face, not my back!
    Just my two cents!


    1. Sphinx says:

      Thanks for the response, but I do have to disagree with one thing you mentioned. I dont find that bw/wm parings are more harmful than bm/ww pairings. As a matter of fact I find bm/ww are more harmful because there more prevalent, three times as much I believe. And being a bw in Los Angeles who’s had ‘friendships” with ww who date bm, most of those parings have more to do with their hate of bw and wm then love for each other. I swear Iv heard the most racially supect thngs from ww who date bm, and thats why I dont have white friends now.

      Thanks for reading.


      1. @Sphinx

        It is interesting to hear about how life is for you as a black woman in Los Angeles and I hope you enjoyed my tale of how life is for me as a black man in New York. I like these black blogs because the main crux of the story is that once you are a Negro, someway somehow, white supremacy will affect you regardless of the city.

        I actually agree with you, I only spoke about the black female/white male pairing because Peanut and the commenter FX are females. I am going to give you my individual perspective since I have dated interracially in the past(before I truly understood about white supremacy, I had minor romances with an Italian-American girl from Staten Island, a mostly white section of NYC, and a Russian girl from Brooklyn). If you ever saw the movie Jungle Fever, that was me in the past to some degree. To be fair Sphinx, there are some brothas that do find “true love” with white females(especially if they may not have the Denzel Washington or Morris Chestnut appeal that alot of sistas like). However, it does seem like 9 times out of 10, there is usually some black girl bashing involved. These are just theories Sphinx. It could be that some black men coming from single mother households could have some issues with black women, especially when you consider single mothers do make a decent share of parenting in the black community. However, it could just be an “integration minded Negro” who feels the only way to make it in life is to assimilate into White America. And in terms of children with bm/ww, the white mothers are the ones that push the “colorblindness” stuff onto the biracial kids and since women do much of the childrearing, that kid is going to have much more exposure to white culture(and white racism) than the BW/WM pairing. Honestly Sphinx, my mother knows nothing about her European side(her father was Portuguese) and knows everything about Black Trinidadian culture from her mother.

        The irony about interracial dating Sphinx that sometimes the assimilation benefit for black partner backfires. Since I am of Carribean heritage, I know a bit about the Blacks in England(most blacks in England are usually Jamaican, Trinidadian,etc.). Now the black community in England is nowhere as large as the African American community so naturally, there are a decent number of both black men and black women who have white partners. Guess what Sphinx? The black community in England has the lowest quality of life rankings of all British populations, including their biracial children, the black community still suffers from high crime rates, low education, police brutality and the unemployment rate for the Black Britons is actually higher than Black Americans, if Im not mistaken. Most blacks still live in the ghetto of the major English cities like London and Birmingham. In fact Sphinx, Brixton( this is the area of London where the black people mostly live. Its like Harlem to my hometown of NYC and South Central to your hometown of L.A.) has had some ugly race riots(similar to the LA riots in 1992) throughout the 1980s and 1990s when the black Britons felt they were being mistreated by white British society.

        And yes Sphinx, I am very suspect of whites who date blacks. Its like because they dated a black person or have a black husband/black wife or black children, they could just go mad, say the most mind blowing racially charged comments and then use their spouse to defend their actions.

        Hope you enjoyed my comments!


  11. TTNYCRN says:

    Actually, to put it better, I will re-phrase my comment on my last post.

    Its not so much that I dont think a black person that is dating or married to white person is not sincere about racial equity but as mstoogood4yall stated, the avenues of action are leading to different destinations.

    A black person with a white mate will try to convince me of how many “good white people” are out there or the “the not all whites” argument. My logic has nothing to do with how many good or bad white people are out there. Heck, your white mate might indeed be a very nice person. However, the essence of my focus is that due to white supremacy, whites are given a higher social/life outcome benefit that any other person that is not white. So, thats why I cannot support integration.

    Besides, white supremacy is like this- If I am in a desert, with ALOT of dangerous scorpions and snakes and I meet one scorpion/snake that has no venom, how is that helping me? Thats what being a non-white person is like when dealing with the white supremacist culture that rules this Earth. If 99 snakes/scorpions out of 100 are poisonous, I will still be dead even if that one scorpion/snake is “good”. Thats why I really cannot understand the not the whites logic.

    Anyway to the commenter FX, to Peanut if she is with a white man and wants to see this movie, and to any other black person who is in a IR union. I respect your love-life and I think your heart is probably in the right place. However, speaking like a New Yorker, I am taking the subway to The Bronx and you are taking it Queens. I want black people to raise their moral, economic, and social standing without getting handouts from white people that is the realistic way of improving their quality of life ratings while you guys might just want to sing kumbaya with white folks and pretend that white supremacist culture is not that serious.

    Just my two cents once again.


    1. “A black person with a white mate will try to convince me of how many “good white people” are out there or the “the not all whites” argument. My logic has nothing to do with how many good or bad white people are out there. Heck, your white mate might indeed be a very nice person. However, the essence of my focus is that due to white supremacy, whites are given a higher social/life outcome benefit that any other person that is not white”

      amen, and I’ll add that a lot of black organizations don’t allow whites because we have to first undo the brainwashing of trusting and putting a lot of faith in what a white person says. There are some black people that will listen and pay more attention to what a white person says than another black person because when we see scientists, scholars, experts, etc they are almost always white. So we get to thinking that if the experts say its true then it must be and we learn to associate expertise with whiteness.
      Yes there are some good white people but we don’t have time to weed them out from the racist ones we have weeding to do of our own communities. We have so many backstabbers in our own race we need to separate from before we can even begin to separate the racists from the non racist whites. I’ve seen only a few non racist non trolling whites that come on these blogs and i can count them on one hand. Blacks and native americans teamed up sometimes but even then some of them threw us under the bus and some owned blacks as slaves, so we can’t even trust a lot of poc to stand with us. If we can’t even trust other races and cultures of people to stand with us that deal with racism/white supremacy , how are we supposed to trust and stand with the people that caused it and benefit from it.


      1. TTNYCRN says:


        You made some very good points. Speaking about Native Americans, if you have a chance, read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee and Black Indians. You are correct about Native Americans owning slaves and blacks(the Buffalo Soldiers) fighting against one another. Nevertheless mstoogood4yall, as you know with white supremacy, it is about creating in-group hostility to benefit the whites. Some Native Americans trusted white people(other Natives were catching onto white supremacy and did not trust whites) yet their lands were still taken away.

        You said-I’ve seen only a few non racist non trolling whites that come on these blogs and i can count them on one hand.
        You are very correct, the more I deal with white supremacy, I agree 100% with that assertion.


  12. FX says:

    I’m only going to say two things.

    First, my household is not “colorblind”. We discuss privelege, racism, and marginilization on an almost daily basis. I talk about the discrimination I face on the street, in stores, at my job, while driving, etc. on a daily basis. I couldn’t be with someone I couldn’t talk about these things with.

    Second, the point that I was making seemed to be lost in the shuffle. It was suggested by TTNYCRN that Black folks in inter-cultural pairings should give up the fight, i.e. ‘keep their mouth shut’.

    I’m not going to do that. I work every day (I am an educator) to educate people and talk about privelege, margilinization, and the systematic oppression of brown folks (and old folks, sexual and gender minorities, wimmin, differently abled folks, and other marginalized communities, etc.) and I’ll do it until I die. I don’t need anyone’s approval for that and I would do this work and have a place in the fight regardless of who I’m dating.

    What I’ve learned over time is that the fact that I’m with a white man AND doing the work is people’s issues to sort out, not mine.


  13. It was nice to hear your rebuttal FX.

    You said-First, my household is not “colorblind”. We discuss privelege, racism, and marginilization on an almost daily basis. I talk about the discrimination I face on the street, in stores, at my job, while driving, etc. on a daily basis. I couldn’t be with someone I couldn’t talk about these things with.

    Honestly FX, you seem really have a good understanding of these issues. And obviously as black people in America, I have the same experiences as you(I mentioned about my unbringing in New York) when dealing with this racial caste system. Nevertheless FX, I will still have to respectfully agree to disagree with you. Now I am making a generalized argument(its not aimed at you on individual grounds) on why African-Americans in interracial relationships(I use whites as the default because when blacks do get into IR unions, it is with a white person mostly) should not waste their time battling racial injustice and just focus on their love life.

    1)Logic- If someone told me they were cleaning up crime and they were dating or married to a Mafia boss, I wonder how much crime they would be really cleaning up crime. It is matter of basic logic. It is a conflict of interest issue.

    2) The profit from white supremacy- If you are a black person with a white person, you could earn a little bit of profit off of your white mate. How? Well if you are black female with a white man, you could move to the great suburbs of Long Island or the Upper East Side of Manhattan and you dont have to experience the poor quality of life that the other poverty stricken living on welfare Negroes face in Harlem and Bedford-Stuyvesant(using my hometown of NYC for reference). If you have biracial children, depending on how the genetics plays out, they could pass for white, ignore their “blackness” and get a boost in their life chances that the “darkies” cannot get. So I find it odd that a black person with a white person is going to “really” be battling aganist white supremacy when to some degree, even if it is slim, they could profit off of it.

    3) The “kumbaya” image- The truth of the matter is that a black person having an interracial relationship with a white person, whether they want that image or not, will be used to create a “colorblind, kumbaya, We Are The Human Race image”. And sadly, that image does not work well for most black people who have to battle on-going racism in America and throughout the world. In other words FX, your interracial relationship will just be viewed from the lens that “integration & intermarriage” is the way for black people to go. Well from sociological research, integration barely helps Negroes. You dont have to agree with black nationalism FX(e.g. Elijah Muhammad & Farrakhan) but it is indeed more effective than integration for helping black people improve their quality of living than seeking to be in white society and wanting white partners.

    You said-I don’t need anyone’s approval for that and I would do this work and have a place in the fight regardless of who I’m dating.
    What I’ve learned over time is that the fact that I’m with a white man AND doing the work is people’s issues to sort out, not mine.
    As I said before FX, I honestly wish you a healthy relationship and no one, black or white, should tell you who to be with. That is your individual free will. And obviously, you dont need anyone’s approval to do anything. However, from a collective/group point of view, a black person in an interracial relationship should probably let those crazy angry Negroes on 125th St in Harlem who truly have an interest in uplifting the majority of African-Americans from their culture of death state do the fighting aganist white supremacy. I say that because blacks in interracial unions have an interesting way of doing the kumbaya thing and “integrating” Negroes on a bridge to nowhere despite their positive efforts! In other words FX, sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions!
    Anyway, I respect your rebuttal FX and I only speak as a black man who is a realist, a sociology lover and who wants to see black people actually living lives, not just merely existing on this Earth dominated by white supremacy.


  14. TTNYCRN says:


    Just to be clear with FX, I respect you as you stated that as an educator, you try to educated others about the ills of society and try to be an agent of social change. I really do respect you.

    I just want you to understand that my fight as a black man and your fight as a black woman with a white man, are just two different things. As I stated in my first comment, I live 24/7 in the inner city of New York and as I travel to other cities in America to the black areas(e.g. Boston’s Roxbury & Georgia Ave in Washington DC), I see the despair, the hopelessness and a sense of just “giving up on life” among many African-Americans. And as I learn more about white supremacy(e.g. blacks in other nations such as the Afro-Caribbeans in England, the Afro-Brazilians, the Native Americans, Aboriginals in Australia,etc.), I see pretty much the same affect on them as the Black Americans. White supremacy is an anti-life entity, it is a system of death. Because of my biology(the study of life), I am placed in a caste system. Even though Im not a parent yet, as a black man, if have kids, I will pass on my genetics to them. They too will suffer from white supremacy. Thats why I am so passionate about how to battle against it because it affects my life and the lives of those I care about.

    As a black woman FX, you face the same issues as me, probably even more as sistas have to deal with both sexism mixed with racism. However since your partner is white, I honestly cannot trust any black person with a white partner who states that they are against racial inequity, white privilege and marginilization when at some points they profit from the very thing they claim to be against. At the end of the day FX, you dont have to deal with the quality of life problems(e.g. poor schools, gun violence, high mortality rates) that many African Americans have to deal with in the inner city as your white partner could move you the “nice” areas of the city or the suburbs, you could boost your social status or financial assets by having a white man and you could have your biracial kids “pass for white” to improve their chances in life. Thats why I said FX, it is better for black people who are really vested in their communities to be agents of social change. If actions speak louder than words FX, black people who are interracial relationships are just making a joke(mocking) of a serious issue(white supremacy).
    Sometimes my brazen language might come off as sarcasm. As I said FX, I respect your fight in trying to make changes in society. Nevertheless, I just wanted to show you that by having a white partner you really do not have the burden to bear that many African Americans have and why you and I are just fighting for different things.


  15. @lovergirl
    I went to see Mandela: LWTF recently in a very white neighborhood. When Zindzi Mandela, as a young woman, went to visit her father in prison – seeing him for the first time since she was in diapers – she told him that “The struggle [against Apartheid] is my life.” The ENTIRE theater laughed. I bullshit you not. There were other points in the movie where people laughed inappropriately, but this stood out for me.

    These whites thought everything South Africans were fighting so hard against was a joke. I was beyond offended because their history parallels ours (I’m African American) so closely, so if all of those people think so low of the South African struggle and their history, how must they feel about our struggle and history?

    So I agree. I wouldn’t watch slavery movies with a white person.


  16. TTNYCRN says:


    “So I agree. I wouldn’t watch slavery movies with a white person”

    No black person in their right mind(ones who are sane of course) is going to be in a union with a white person, much less watch a slavery movie with a white person. Yet these black people in interracial relationships with whites like to talk about and watch these things like they really have some interest in this. Aint that something!
    As I said, people have their free will and a right to their love life without interference. Yet, serious problems of society(white supremacy) should not be used as a mockery tool. If it was not so bizarre in thinking, it is actually quite funny. Let me see- A black man is with a white woman or a black woman is with white man. Now, you could get some cash, a little social status, and you could get some biracial “let them pass for white” kids. Life is golden, rock it. So you are making a profit off of white supremacy. Then all of a sudden, you want to be more “black” than a black nationalist. Really? This is like a comedy show. As a black man, I really have to say that some Negroes have some foolishness that beyond reason!
    The sad part is that these Negroes could be “colorblind” and devote their social concerns to something like saving polar bears. What a shame!
    Main crux of this argument- Let the nut-case “serious” black nationalist handle these issues( things from slavery). Black people dont need “soft and joker” Negroes in this fight! Lets keep it real and thats the truth!


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